Michigan Bitcoin Atm Locations. 24 Hour Locations, Instant ...

Just installed this bad Boy #BITCOIN ATM @ Walters Shopping place 12197 Conant St, Hamtramck, MI 48212. Just trying to spread Adoption in my Beautiful State of Michigan. Happy easter to all who celebrate. GOD BLESS and be safe everyone.

Just installed this bad Boy #BITCOIN ATM @ Walters Shopping place 12197 Conant St, Hamtramck, MI 48212. Just trying to spread Adoption in my Beautiful State of Michigan. Happy easter to all who celebrate. GOD BLESS and be safe everyone. submitted by LegendzEnt to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM found in Kalamazoo, MI

Bitcoin ATM found in Kalamazoo, MI submitted by ziggyrobinson420 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM at 3800 Conner St, Detroit, MI 48215 | Bitcoin Of America

Bitcoin ATM at 3800 Conner St, Detroit, MI 48215 | Bitcoin Of America submitted by Rufflenator to 3bitcoins [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM at 3800 Conner St, Detroit, MI 48215 | Bitcoin Of America

Bitcoin ATM at 3800 Conner St, Detroit, MI 48215 | Bitcoin Of America submitted by ososru to Bitcoin4free [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM spotted in Kalamazoo, MI.

Bitcoin ATM spotted in Kalamazoo, MI. submitted by ziggyrobinson420 to btc [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM now at The Bronx Deli of Farmington Hills MI - is this the first one in the Midwest?

Bitcoin ATM now at The Bronx Deli of Farmington Hills MI - is this the first one in the Midwest? submitted by leon6677 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM found in Kalamazoo, MI /r/Bitcoin

Bitcoin ATM found in Kalamazoo, MI /Bitcoin submitted by ABitcoinAllBot to BitcoinAll [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM spotted in Kalamazoo, MI.

Bitcoin ATM spotted in Kalamazoo, MI. submitted by ABitcoinAllBot to BitcoinAll [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM in Farmington Hills, MI

There is now a bitcoin ATM @
The Bronx Deli
37580 W 12 Mile Rd, Farmington Hills, MI 48331
You are able to purchase bitcoin in real time with cash.
Will post more specifics on the machine itself soon and probably upload some pictures.
submitted by bitcoinmi to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin ATM installed in Grand Rapids, MI

Bitcoin ATM installed in Grand Rapids, MI submitted by FreddieFreelance to BitcoinNews [link] [comments]

LibertyX launches Bitcoin-to-cash sales at ATMs in United States (current BTC/USD price is $13,145.86)

Latest Bitcoin News:
LibertyX launches Bitcoin-to-cash sales at ATMs in United States
Other Related Bitcoin Topics:
Bitcoin Price | Bitcoin Mining | Blockchain
The latest Bitcoin news has been sourced from the CoinSalad.com Bitcoin Price and News Events page. CoinSalad is a web service that provides real-time Bitcoin market info, charts, data and tools.
submitted by coinsaladcom to CoinSalad [link] [comments]

Stay truly anonymous. Use a VPN every time you use the TOR browser. Encrypt all messages with PGP (pretty good privacy).

STAY ALERT: 1. Purchase a VPN service to hide your IP address. (pay in Bitcoin) 2. Purchase Bitcoin at an ATM machine. (use a burner phone, wear a mask, etc.) 3. Deposit Bitcoin into your trading account. (double check QR code) 4. Trade your Bitcoin for Monero. 5. Use a secure wallet to hold your crypto.
SUGGESTIONS: 1. Private Internet Access 2. CoinCloud ATM 3. www.blockchain.info (enter address, screenshot code just in case) 4. KuCoin Exchange 5. Download "Exodus Wallet"
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submitted by MoneroPay to mydrugofchoice [link] [comments]

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Türkiye’nin en iyi bahis siteleri içinde gösterilen Piabet uzun senelerden beri yüksek kalite standartlarında hizmet sunan, bünyesinde çeşitli bahis ve casino oyunları barındıran güvenli bir bahis sitesidir. Merkezi yurt dışında bulunan Piabet’te tüm işlemler ve oyunlar güçlü bir altyapıya sahip internet sitesi üzerinden gerçekleştirilmektedir.

Piabet giriş

Türkçe ve İngilizce olmak üzere iki farklı dilde görüntülenebilen Piabet internet sitesi bünyesinde canlı bahisten e-sporta, canlı casinodan spor bahislerine, beton gamesten canlı tombalaya, sanal bahisten poker ve casino kısmına kadar geniş yelpazede kategoriler gösterilmekte olup sitenin geniş bir kesime hitap ettiği görülmektedir.

Yazımızın devamında Piabet’i güvenilirlik, giriş, spor bahisleri, canlı bahis, casino, bonuslar, para yatırma ve para çekme, satın alan ilişkileri gibi mevzu başlıkları altında detaylı bir şekilde inceleyeceğiz. Yazımız sürekli güncellenen bir içeriğe sahip olup Piabet konusunda siz değerli okuyucularımıza bir başucu rehberi olmasını ummaktayız.


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Piabet güvenilir mi?

Bir bahis ya da casino sever yeni bir bahis sitesi arayışında ise ve Piabet’i araştırıyorsa kuşkusuz ilk merak etmiş olduğu şeylerin başlangıcında sitenin güvenli olup olmadığı gelmektedir. Çünkü insanlar bahis ve casino sitelerinde şanslarını denerlerken öncelikle belirli bir miktar parayı riske etmek durumundadırlar. Dolayısıyla bu paranın güvenli bir yere gidiyor olması büyük örutubet taşımaktadır. Sadece para yatırma değil kazanılan paraları sorunsuzca çekebilmek de çok önemli olup tüm bu ve benzeri maddeler ilgili bahis sitesinin ne kadar güvenli olduğu ile direkt ilişkilidir. Piabet’i güvenilirlik konusunda değerlendirmeye alırken ilk yapmamız ihtiyaç duyulan hamle büronun lisans belgesi sahibi olup olmadığına bakmaktır.
deneme bonusu
Webforce Entertainment N.V. şirketine bağlı olarak faaliyet sürdüren Piabet, Curaçao Hükümeti tarafından gerekli izinleri almış olup online e-oyun işlemlerini yasal yetki ile yürütmektedir. Sitenin e-oyun lisanslama ve denetimi ise Antillephone N.V tarafınca sağlanmakta olup lisans belge numarası 8048/JAZ2013-001’dir. Belirtmiş olduğumuz tüm bu lisans bilgilerinin ve ilgili lisans belgesinin Piabet internet sitesinde açık bir şekilde sunulduğunu, bu bilgilerin doğruluğunu [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) e-posta hesabı ile irtibata geçerek sorgulatabileceğinizi belirtelim. Bunun yanında Piabet canlı destek hattı ya da [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) e-posta destek servisi üzerinden Piabet yetkililerine 7/24 konu ile ilgili aklınıza takılan soruları rahat bir şekilde sorabileceğinizi de hatırlatmadan geçmeyelim!

Tüm bunlara ek olarak Piabet’in Türkiye pazarında ortalama altı senedir aslabir şekilde hizmetlerini aksatmaması, erişim engellemelerine karşı aldığı önlemler, müşteri ilişkilerine ve müşteri memnuniyetine verdiği örutubet, iyi işleyen bir organizasyon yapısına haiz olması, finansal işlemlerde kısaca para yatırma ve para çekme işlemlerinde sorunsuz bir site oluşu, sektörün en güvenilir oyun sağlayıcıları ve finans kuruluşları ile iş birliği yapması güvenilirliğini destekleyen önemli unsurlardan birkaçıdır.

Piabet Giriş

Piabet bahis sitesi Avrupa sektörü deneyimli, uluslararası geçerliliği bulunan online bahis ve casino oyunları oynatma lisansına haiz, Webforce Entertainment N.V. Yardımı ile güçlü bir mali yapısı olan yurt dışı merkezli güvenli bir bahis sitesi olsa da Türkiye’deki spor bahisleri yasası sebebiyle benzeri yabancı merkezli bahis siteleri benzer biçimde Piabet’in de ülke sınırları içinde hizmet sunmasına yasak getirilmiştir. Bu bağlamda informasyon Teknolojileri ve İletişim Kurumu Başkanlığı kaçak bahisin önüne geçebilmek amacıyla Piabet’in de içinde bulunduğu online bahis sitelerine ülke içinden erişim engeli getirmektedir. Bu engellemeler gerçekleştiğinde Piabet’in mevcut erişim adresine artık ülke içinden erişim mümkün olmamakla beraber bu tür durumlar için her türlü hazırlığını yapmış olan site derhal yeni bir URL adresi belirleyerek girişler için yeni adresi aktif hale getirir. Böylelikle Piabet hizmetlerinde herhangi bir kesinti yaşanmamış olur.

Piabet’te istisna durumlar olmadıkça adres değişimleri adres uzantılarının ardışık sayılar kuralına nazaran ilerlemesiyle gerçekleşmektedir. Örnek vermek gerekirse; Piabet’in uzantısı 654 olan URL adresine engel gelirse yeni adres Piabet 655 olarak güncellenmektedir. Piabet giriş problemi yaşamaya devam ediyorsanız sitenin mesajşim kanallarından Whatsapp destek hattı veya e-posta destek hattının mesajşim bilgilerini bir kenara yazmanızda yarar vardır. Bu yöntemlerle ihtiyaç duymanız halinde Piabet alan kişi temsilcileri ekibi size yardımcı olacaktır. Piabet sosyal medya hesaplarını takip ederek anlık bilgilendirmelerden yararlanmak ve web sitemizde görmüş olduğunuz Piabet giriş-üyelik butonlarına tıklamak Piabet giriş problemi yaşamamanız adına alabileceğiniz önlemlerden, uygulayabileceğiniz diğer yollardan birkaçıdır.

Piabet Üyelik

Türkiye bahis pazarında etken olarak faaliyet sürdüren en köklü bahis sitelerinin başlangıcında gelen Piabet bahis sitesi üye sayısı ve aktifliği açısından da zirveye oynamaktadır. Sitede gün içinde on binlerce, yüz binlerce ziyaretçi ağırlanmakta olup siteye olan ilgi her geçen gün büyümektedir. Piabet’te bahis ve casino oyunlarına iştirak etmek için öncelikle bir Piabet hesabının oluşturulması gerekmektedir. 18 yaşını doldurmuş olan her kişinin hesap açmakta özgür olduğu Piabet’te üyelik işlemleri oldukça kolay ve hızlı gerçekleşmektedir. Üyelik işlemleri esnasında kullanıcılardan herhangi bir belge ya da evrak talep edilmeyişinin de etkisiyle üyelik işlemlerine başlangıç ile işlemlerin bitişi arasındaki vakit bir tek bir ya da iki dakikadan ibarettir.

Piabet üyelik aşamalarına başlamanın ilk adımı Piabet internet sitesine güncel adresi üzerinden erişim sağlamaktır. Düzmece oluşumların tuzağına düşmemek adına siteye güncel giriş adresi üzerinden bağlandığınıza kararlı olmanız çok ama çok mühimdir! İnternet internet sitemizdeki Piabet buton, bağlantı ve bannerlarının sizleri Piabet resmi adresine otomatikman bağlamakta bulunduğunu unutmayınız. Büronun internet sitesine giriş icra ettiğinızda sayfanın sağ üst köşesinde giriş yap butonunun derhal yanında yeşil renkte “üye ol” butonu bulunmaktadır. Buraya tıklayarak kayıt formunu açınız. Kayıt formunda tüm kullanıcılardan ayırım yapılmaksızın ad, soyad, ülke, doğum tarihi şeklinde kişisel bilgiler ile kullanıcı adı, şifre, e-posta şeklinde hesap bilgileri istenmektedir. Formu eksiksiz ve doğru bilgilerle doldurmanızın arkasından formun altındaki “üye ol” butonuna tıklayınız. Kayıt formunu hatasız doldurmanız halinde sistem saniyeler içinde e-posta hesabınıza bir hesap aktifleştirme linki gönderecektir. Bu bağlantıya tıkladıktan sonrasında Piabet hesabınızı artık aktif bir halde kullanmaya başlayabilirsiniz.

Piabet Canlı Bahis

Son aylarda Türkiye’nin yasal bahis platformları İddaa, Bilyoner, Nesine, Misli, Oley, Tuttur, Birebin şeklinde şirketlerin canlı bahis oyunları oynatmaya başlamasıyla birlikte bu bahis türünün Türkiye’deki bahis severler tarafından iyice popüler hale geldiğini görmekteyiz. Buna bağlı olarak Piabet canlı bahis hizmetini, oranlarını ve seçeneklerini merak edenlere bu başlık altında birkaç önemli informasyon vermek isteriz.

Piabet canlı bahis bölümü sitenin en etken, en ilgi çeken ve en yüksek paraların döndüğü bölümlerin başlangıcında gelmektedir. Devamlı bir müsabaka ya da yarışma olması nedeniyle 7/24 canlı bahis oyunlarına katılım göstermek mümkündür. Dünyanın dört bir yanından aklınıza gelebilecek her türlü spor dalının müsabakalarına canlı bahis seçeneklerinin açıldığı Piabet’te canlı bahis oranları piyasa genel ortalamasının üzerindedir. Ek olarak Piabet canlı bahis oyunlarına katılım gösterenlerin bahis yaptıkları maçları ücretsiz ve canlı olarak takip edebilme şansları bulunmaktadır. Piabet TV adlı bu hizmette üye olsun olmasın her ziyaretçi dünyanın çeşitli ülkelerinde oynanan basketbol, futbol, tenis, buz hokeyi gibi spor müsabakalarının canlı maç yayınlarını kaliteli ve ücretsiz olarak izleyebilmektedirler.

Piabet Spor ve Casino Üyelerine İlk Üyelik Bonusları

Piabet pek çok bahis sitesinin boy gösterdiği Türkiye bahis sektöründe kızışan rekabette öne çıkabilmek, mevcut müşterilerini ödüllendirmek ve yeni üyeleri siteye çekebilmek adına bonus kampanyalarında çok eli açık bir görünüm sergilemektedir. Spor, casino, hoşgeldin, canlı casino ve özel bonuslar başlıkları altında üyelere sayısız bonus kampanyası sunulmaktadır. Piabet’i araştıranların en çok merak ettiği bonus kampanyası türü ise hoşgeldin kısaca ilk üyelik bonusu kampanyaları ve bu kampanyaların içerikleri olmaktadır. Piabet’te hem spor bahisleri hem de casino severlere özel iki farklı hoşgeldin bonusu kampanyası yer almaktadır.

Piabet’te spor alanına özel uygulanan %100 250 TL + 25 freespin hoşgeldin bonusundan yalnız spor bahislerine meydana getirilen ilk yatırım işlemlerinde yararlanılabilmektedir. Sitede güncel olarak sunulan tüm para yatırma yöntemleri ile meydana gelen yatırımlar için geçerli olan bu bonus promosyonundan yararlanabilmek için yeni üyelerin ilk yatırımlarının en az 20 TL olması gerekmekle beraber kazanılabilecek en yüksek bonus tutarı 250 TL ile sınırlandırılmıştır. Yeni üyeler para yatırma işlemini başarıyla gerçekleştirdikten sonra yatırım meydana getirilen miktarın tümü ile en az üç müsabakadan oluşan ve toplam oranı 4.00 olan bir ya da daha fazla sayıda kombine kupon almalıdır. Bu kupon yahut kuponlarda yer alan seçimlerin her birinin oranı ise en düşük 1.30 olmalıdır. Bu şartları karşılayan kupon veya kuponlar oluşturulduktan sonra bonus talep edilebilir. Para çekme işlemi yapmadan önce alınan bonusun 12 katını en düşük 2.30 oranında spor müsabakalarında çevirmek gerekmektedir. Freespinler yalnız Dead or Alive, Magic Portals, Blood Suckers oyunlarında geçerli olup freespinden elde edilen kazançların çekilebilmesi için kazanılan miktarın 10 katının casino oyunlarında çevrilmiş olması gerekmektedir.



Piabet 777 TL canlı casino ilk üyelik bonusunun detayları ise şöyledir: bir tek banka havalesi, CepBank ve QR kod yöntemlerinden birini kullanıp en düşük 20 TL meblağında para yatırma işlemi gerçekleştirilerek yararlanılabilmekte olup yatırılan tutarı CasinoPro hesabına aktarma işlemini gerçekleştirdikten sonrasında Piabet canlı yardım hattından bonusu talep etmek gerekmektedir. Yatırılan tutarın %100’ü kadar bonus talep edilebilmektedir ve alınabilecek en yüksek bonus meblağı 777 TL, minimum ise 20 TL’dir. Para çekme işlemi yapabilmek için anaparanın bir katını, bonusun ise 45 katını canlı casino oyunlarında oynamak gerekmektedir.

Bir de %100 slot casino hoşgeldin bonusu vardır. Her yeni üyenin bir kere yararlanabildiği bu bonus kampanyasında kullanıcılar minimum 50 TL tutarındaki casino yatırımları için 500 TL’ye kadar %100 bonus alabilmektedir. Casino Pro hesabına aktarım işlemi gerçekleştirdikten sonra bakiye aslabir şekilde başka oyunlarda veya bölümlerde kullanılmadan bonusun canlı yardım yetkililerinden talep edilmesi gerekmektedir. Alınan bonusun 40 katını ve anaparayı casino oyunlarında çevirme şartı vardır. Bonus ile kazanabilecek maksimum meblağ 10.000 TL’dir.

Piabet Para Yatırma

Piabet güvenli ve lisanslı bir bahis sitesi olarak üyelerinin tüm para yatırma işlemlerini güvenilirlik, süratlilık ve gizlilik unsurlarını gözeterek gerçekleştirir. Sitede üyelik açar açmaz para yatırma işlemi gerçekleştirebilirsiniz. Kullanıcı adı ve şifreniz ile sisteme giriş yaptıktan sonrasında para yatırma şekilleri karşınıza çıkacaktır. Sitede güncel olarak sunulan para yatırma yöntemleri ve limitleri şöyle sıralanmaktadır:

Bitcoin yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım meblağı 50 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 10.000 TL)
VIP Kredi Kartı yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 5.000 TL)
Payznet Kredi Kartı yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazlaca yatırım meblağı 2.000 TL)
Papara yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 100 TL – en fazla yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
Neropay yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 20 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 10.000 TL)
Banka Havalesi yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım meblağı 20 TL – en fazla yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
Ziraat Cep Bank Deposit yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım meblağı 20 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 500 TL)
Jet CMT Deposit yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım meblağı 50 TL – en fazlaca yatırım tutarı 100.000 TL)
derhal Öde Kredi Kart Havalesi yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazlaca yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
derhal Öde Havale yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazlaca yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
RocketPay VIP Havale yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 100 TL – en fazlaca yatırım meblağı 20.000 TL)
Yeni Nesil QR yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 20 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 4.000 TL)
Envoy Hızlı QR yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 20 TL – en fazla yatırım tutarı 4.000 TL)
Jet QR yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 20 TL – en çok yatırım meblağı 4.000 TL)
ATM/Cep Bank geçirme yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım meblağı 10 TL – en fazla yatırım tutarı 3.000 TL)
Business Card yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazla yatırım meblağı 2.000 TL)
Denizbank SMS yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 20 TL – en fazla yatırım meblağı 10.000 TL)
Kredi Kartına Hızlı Havale yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım meblağı 250 TL – en çok yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
Anında Papara yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazla yatırım meblağı 50.000 TL)
EcoPayz yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım meblağı 20 TL – en fazlaca yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
AstroPay yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım meblağı 10 TL – en fazlaca yatırım meblağı 500 TL)
Jet Havale yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım meblağı 50 TL – en fazla yatırım meblağı 20.000 TL)
Anında Havale yöntemi ile para yatırma (en az yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en fazlaca yatırım tutarı 20.000 TL)
Paygiga yöntemi ile para yatırma (minimum yatırım tutarı 50 TL – en çok yatırım tutarı 10.000 TL)

Piabet Para Çekme

Üyelerine %100 hızlı ve güvenilir ödeme garantisi sunan Piabet bugüne dek on binlerce üyesine yüksek miktarlarda paralar ödemiş mali yapısı güçlü bir bahis sitesidir. Çoğu bahis ve casino sever için bir bahis sitesinden beklentilerin başında kazanılan parayı sorunsuzca çekebilmek gelmektedir. Piabet bu yönüyle sektörün en iyileri arasındadır. Sitede üyelere sunulan para çekme şekilleri ise şöyle sıralanmaktadır:
#piabet giriş http://wlpiabet.adsrv.eacdn.com/C.ashx?btag=a_8164b_1166c_&affid=6347&siteid=8164&adid=1166&c=
Banka Havalesi ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim tutarı 100 TL, en fazlaca çekim tutarı 10.000 TL
Envoy Hızlı Havale ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim tutarı 100 TL, en çok çekim tutarı 10.000 TL
Bitcoin ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazlaca çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Payturka CMT ile para çekme yöntemi: minimum çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazla çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Neropay ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazla çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Anında Kredi Kartı ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en çok çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Anında Papara ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim tutarı 100 TL, en çok çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Anında Havale ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim tutarı 100 TL, en fazla çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Paygiga ile para çekme yöntemi: minimum çekim tutarı 100 TL, en fazlaca çekim tutarı 10.000 TL
Papara ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazla çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
RocketPay ile para çekme yöntemi: minimum çekim tutarı 100 TL, en çok çekim tutarı 10.000 TL
EcoPayz ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en çok çekim meblağı 10.000 TL
Kredi Kartı/Debit Kart ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazla çekim meblağı 1.500 TL
Jet Anında Banka Transferi ile para çekme yöntemi: en az çekim meblağı 100 TL, en fazla çekim tutarı 10.000 TL
yani Piabet: Türkiye bahis sektöründe boy gösteren yüzlerce bahis sitesi arasından güvenilirliği ve üye dostu olması ile sıyrılıp ön plana çıkan Piabet 2020 yılına iddialı bonus kampanyaları ile girdi. Özellikle yeni üyelere özel sunulan spor bahisleri ve casino hoşgeldin bonusları ile dikkat çeken Piabet geniş slot oyunları arşivi, yüksek bahis oranları ve 7/24 canlı destek hattıyla fark yaratmaktadır. Yeni bir bahis sitesi arayışındaysanız Piabet’in doğru seçeneklerden biri olduğunu söyleyebiliriz. Aşağıdaki butona tıklayarak siteye emin bir şekilde erişim sağlayabilir, üyelik kayıt formunu doldurarak size özel bonuslardan derhal yararlanmaya başlayabilirsiniz.

#Piabet http://wlpiabet.adsrv.eacdn.com/C.ashx?btag=a_8164b_1166c_&affid=6347&siteid=8164&adid=1166&c=


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M-N 1k-5k

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neuronaut Neuroneum neuroproducers Neurosurgery NeutralCryptoTalk NeutralTalk Nevada nevadapolitics neveragainmovement NeverStopAGirlFight NeverTrump neverwinternights New_Hampshire New_Jersey_Politics New_Tattoos New_World_MMO New_York_City NewAge NewAgeMusic NewAlbums NewAmsterdamTV Newark newborns Newbraunfels newbrunswickcanada NewBrunswickNJ Newbwriters NewChallenger NewCountry NewCydiaTweaks NewDads NewedgeMustang Newegg newengland NewEngland4Sanders NewEnglandPatriots newenglandrevolution neweracaps NewFishSpecies NewGame newgrass Newgrounds newhaven newhiphop newhorizons newIBM newico NewJerseyforSanders NewJerseyMarijuana newleaf newLegacyinc Newlyweds neworleanssaints NewPMDT NewPokimanePics newportbeach NewRetroArcade NewRiders News_Politics newsbotbot newsentences newsokunomoral newsokuvip newspapercomics newsrebooted newsreels newsubreddits NewToReddit NewWest newwords newworldorder NewYorkCoin NewYorkForSanders NewYoutubers NewZanada newzealand_travel Nexo Nexomon NexonDarknessRises Nexplanon NextCarGame nextdoor nextelderscrolls NextOrder Nexus10 Nexus9 nexusearth nexusmods Nexusography nexusplayer nexybit NFC NFCEast nffc NFKRZ NFL2go nfl__stream nfl__streams nfl_games nfl_live_streams_free nfl_livestream_ nfl_livestream_free nfl_streams_hd nfl_streams_live_ nfl_super_bowl NFLDRAFT NFLFandom NFLFantasy NFLFilms NFLFootballGamesToday nflgameslive NFLGameUpdate nfllivestream_ NFLLiveStreamingCBS NFLLiveStreamingFOX NFLNoobs NFLOffTopic NFLReplay nflsgame NFLstatheads nflstream_ nflstream_free nflstream_live nflstreams_ nflstreams_free nflstreams_live_ NFLStreamUpdate nflsuperbowlfree nflsuperbowls nfrealmusic nfrstream nginx NhiTran NHL17HUT NHL18 NHL19 nhl_streams NHLChampionshipBelt NHLstream NHRA nhs niagara NibbaTV Nicaragua niceb8m8 NiceCatch nicedoggos nicegays Nicegirlstories niceguy niceguysDiscussion niceguystories NiceLegs NiceSaveOuija niceyes NichameleonCosplay NichtDieTagespresse nick NickCave nickelodeon NickyWhelan nicolapeltz nicolascage NicoleArbour NicoleLZ NicoleMarieJeanNMJ NicoleMejia nicolenixon NicoleScherzinger NicoleThornedab niconiconi NICUParents NidaleeMains NiennaJade NieRAutomataGame Nievamara Nigahiga Nigeria nightblade nightdriving nightmare NightmareBeforeXmas NightmareNewYork Nightmares nightmemes NightMusic nightphotography nightwalk nightwish nihilisms nihongo Nijmegen NikaidouSaki nikkibella NikkiBlackketter NikkiCo65 Nilesy nim Nimiq nincirclejerk ninemuses Ninja Ninjago NinjasHyper ninjawarrior NinoNakano Nintendeals Nintendo3DS nintendo64 Nintendo_NX NintendoDS Nintendogs NintendoKaren nintendolabo NintendoStitch NintendoSwitchBoxArt NintendoSwitchDesigns NintendoSwitchIndie NinthWorldProblems nintype nippleshadows nipponichi NipseyHussle nirvannatheband nissanfrontier nissanleaf NISTControls NitroToken NIU NixOS NixPlatform NJ_Swingers njbeer NJGuns njhiking NJr4r NJTech nlpclass NLSS NLTP NMMNG NMS_Bases NMS_Federation NMS_Zoology NMSPortals NNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEWS no No_Cry_Challenge No_Ragrets NoAdmins noagenda NoahCyrus noahelowyn NoahGetTheBoat noamchomsky NoAnimePolice nobackspace Noblesse NobodyCaresApostolate noclip NoColoreds NoCopyrightMusic nocopyrightsounds nocrychallenge nocturnemains NoDAPL nodered Nodis NoeliaRamirez NoelleFoley NoelLeon noelmiller nOfAileDPriNtS NoFapES NoFapTeens NoFapWarRebooted nofiller NoFilterNews nofriends nofx nogagreflex NOIA NoIAP NoIdeaAnimation noids noip noise noisefuck NoisyImages noisypics NOIZ nojibrilnolife Nokia7Plus NOLA NOLAMusic Nolan NoLawns NolibsWatch nolimitcoin NoLogsVpn NoLongerAlone Nomad nomagicsuckery NOMANSSKY NoMansSkyAnimals NoMansSkyCrafting NoMansSkyMyJourney NoMansSkyShips NoMansSkyTravelGuide NomSaying NonAustrianEconomics noncensored_bitcoin nonconformists NonCredibleDefense nondirective nonduality NonEnglishMusic nonessentialoils NoNetNeutrality nonfiction nonfiction_bookclub nonfictionbooks NonGold NONINEWS NonNudeButSexy nonon Nonononomaybe nonononono nonononowaitwhat nonononoyesWTF nonoyes Nonprofit_Jobs nonsenselocker nonstopknight NoNut19 Nonviolence noobmaster69 NoobsOfTheAncient Noobtube nook nootropic_deals NootropicResearch NoPee noplastic nopuns norcal Nordichistorymemes NordicSkinCare NordicUnion NORDVEI NormalDayInSweden normanok NormanReedus normiememes NORML Norsemen NorskFotball NorthAmerican northampton NorthCarolina4Sanders northcounty northshore Northwestern NoRules norwayonreddit NorwegianForestCats Norwich NorwichCity Noses nosgoth nosIeep nosleep_irl nosleepfinder NosleepIndex NoSleepInterviews NoSleepReruns NoSleepSleuths NoSleepVideos nosleepworkshops nOSplatform nosql nostalgiacritic NostalgiaMusic NoStepOnSnek Not_Quite_Right NotableUpcomingEvents NotAboutYou notaglobe notalodeon notalwaysright NotaMethAddict notanimemaru NoTap notaperfectfit NotBirdsWithArms Notchcels notcirclejerk notcosplaygirls note8 Notflix notfunny NothingButThieves nothingnowhere NotHowDicksWork nothowgayswork nothowphoneswork notificationgore NoTillGrowery NotionSo notkayfabenews notmeirl notopbutok notpopping notredamefootball notsafeforweiss NotSteveIrwin notthebabylonbee notthebeaverton notthethickofit NotTrending notwholesomeanymore NoU novajobs novalaunchersetups novarent novationcircuit NoveltyAccounts Nowhere_eternity nowhisper nowiknow nowontennis noxappplayer NPB NPC NPCMemes NPCtavern NPD NPERproject npm nprplanetmoney NPSL nqmod Nr2003 nra nsa NSCollectors nsfNSFW NSFW911 nsfw_brat NSFW_SplitDepthGIFS nsfwbabesnude NSFWfun Nsfwhumour nspire nsw nswf NSWF_amatuer NSWFHardcore ntbdbiwdfta ntnu NTSB_database NTU NuclearBusiness nuclearwar nuclearweapons Nudah NudeBase nudeceleb Nuderoast nudibranch nudist_loving nudistpornbeach NudistsGoneWild nugswap nujijinactie nukedbywords nukedfromorbit NukeMeFromOrbit NukeVFX nukleus null number26bank numberphile numberwang numerai numerical numerology numismatics numismatology nunavut nunumains NurdRage NurseJackie NurseJoyProject nursepractitioner Nurses nursingmemes nursingschool NursingSkills nus nutanix NutritionFacts NVC nvidiots nwi NWSL nxtcoin NXThemes nxtwrestling nyancoins nyannyancosplay nycART nycbeer NYCC nycfilmmakers nycfood nycgaybros nycgaymers nycHistory nycstreetart nyctech NYCtrees NYguns NYList NYrap nyspolitics nytimes NYTO NYXL nyxnyxnyx NZBitcoin NZCirclejerk nzpolitics NZTrees
submitted by j259awesome to u/j259awesome [link] [comments]

Al ir a un Bitcoin ATM, a cambiar Bitcoin para sacar efectivo, que información debo llevar?

Hola, soy bastante noob en esto del Bitcoin y pronto recibiré un pago en Bitcoin, pero necesito cambiarlo a pesos. Encontré que hay varios Bitcoin ATM en México y al parecer es mi mejor opción para cambiarlo a pesos. Que información debo llevar al ATM? Un codigo QR? Alguien me puede ayudar a explicar mejor el proceso de cambiar Bitcoin a pesos en un ATM? Gracias!
submitted by PMmeYourCoins to CryptoMexico [link] [comments]

Random Charges?

I purchased $300 of bitcoin using my debit card.
09/02/2019
POS Transaction / COINBASE J5XR CHEAPSIDE GBGB
-$300.00

But since then I've been receiving random charges and I have no idea what these are!!!
Any ideas?
09/02/2019
ATM Fee / COINBASE J5XR CHEAPSIDE GBGB
-$2.40
09/02/2019
POS Transaction / 1-813-3337259_build Cardif GBGB
-$31.77
Pending
Authorization Hold / 1-857-3460010_MI
-$51.89

Wtf is going on. I contacted Coinbase with no reply.
submitted by camsterguy to CoinBase [link] [comments]

Some thoughts and my prediction for EOY 2018

Disclaimer: I hold about 80% VET. I'll assume most of you have read the basics of VET and have DYOR already. If not, the all-in-one thread is great reading and a comprehensive collection of information. I believe that blockchain technology will rapidly improve worldwide system efficiency and slowly add value in ways to our lives we cannot even consider in the present day.

VEN price does not matter for long term holders (>1 year)

The main thing that will drive price will be how much corporations will pay for THOR

The VET/THOR two-token model is genius. The golden goose and it's golden eggs

Corporations want to improve their bottom line

Public dApps are going to be huge. VeVID, VeVOT, VeSCC and the governance model is huge for adoption

My 2018 EOY prediction

Some skepticism - how it could all go wrong?

All feedback and thoughts welcome :) Just my two THOR as a VET holder.
submitted by enozym111 to Vechain [link] [comments]

The number of Bitcoin ATMs installed worldwide exceeded 6000

The number of Bitcoin ATMs installed worldwide exceeded 6000
The number of bitcoin ATMs continues to grow. According to CoinATMRadar, there are currently 6004 such machines.
https://preview.redd.it/okvl0utwhgz31.png?width=738&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff1119dc69565150eee3db51e6a3ade9d95300f3
In November, 108 new Bitcoin ATMs appeared on the CoinATMRadar card. There are 11 new machines are installed daily on average, which is the highest growth rate this year.
3924 ATMs are located in the USA, 653 in Canada. The third and fourth places on the list are Great Britain (272) and Austria (189), the fifth on the list is Spain - 86 ATMs.
In general, Europe accounts for 20% of all installed Bitcoin ATMs, but in Asia, they account for only 2% of the total, even though there is a great popularity of cryptocurrencies in this region.
Since June, the number of installed Bitcoin ATMs has grown by almost one thousand. Of the machines marked on the CoinATMRadar card, just over 35% are bilateral. That is, they allow not only the purchase but also the sale of cryptocurrency. The remaining two-thirds only allow the purchase of bitcoin.
This material is considered a marketing communication and does not contain, and should not be construed as containing, investment advice or an investment recommendation or, an offer of or solicitation for any transactions in financial instruments.
Risk Warning: CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 81.65% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs with this provider. You should consider whether you understand how CFDs work and whether you can afford to take the high risk of losing your money.
Legal Information: ITRADER is operated by Hoch Capital Ltd., a Cypriot Investment Firm (CIF), authorized and regulated by the Cyprus Securities and Exchange Commission (CySEC) under the license no. 198/13, in accordance with the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive (MiFID II).
submitted by Itrader_com to u/Itrader_com [link] [comments]

Coin Society - Comprare e Vendere Bitcoin in Italia


Processing img riytftyjmpv31...
Coin Society è il punto di riferimento delle criptovalute in Italia. Consentiamo ai nostri clienti di comprare e vendere cripto valute in modo semplice, sicuro e in conformità con la legge.Ci troviamo a Milano in Via del Torchio 10 (fermate metro Missori o Sant’Ambrogio). Dal Lunedi al Venerdì, dalle 10:00 alle 19 o su appuntamento. Di seguito l’elenco completo dei nostri servizi:
English version:
Coin Society is an easy, safe and compliant EUR-Crypto exchange. Our mission is to provide custom crypto-asset services to private customers, corporations, and institutions. Transactions are carried out smoothly and professionally by our sales team.
Our team is dynamic and highly skilled, from IT technician to law experts and business developers.We actively help the spread of crypto culture by proving impartial educational content to our community. Read the stories on our medium blog and stay tuned for the next conference meeting.
Social
Website: coinsociety.io
FB: https://www.facebook.com/CoinSocietyMi/
Telegram: https://t.me/GenesisBlock10Milano
submitted by CoinSociety to economiaefinanza [link] [comments]

Coin Society - Comprare e Vendere Bitcoin in Italia

https://www.coinsociety.io/
Coin Society è il punto di riferimento delle criptovalute in Italia. Consentiamo ai nostri clienti di comprare e vendere cripto valute in modo semplice, sicuro e in conformità con la legge. Ci troviamo a Milano in Via del Torchio 10 (fermate metro Missori o Sant’Ambrogio). Dal Lunedi al Venerdì, dalle 10:00 alle 19 o su appuntamento. Di seguito l’elenco completo dei nostri servizi:

English version:
Coin Society is an easy, safe and compliant EUR-Crypto exchange. Our mission is to provide custom crypto-asset services to private customers, corporations, and institutions. Transactions are carried out smoothly and professionally by our sales team.
Our team is dynamic and highly skilled, from IT technician to law experts and business developers. We actively help the spread of crypto culture by proving impartial educational content to our community. Read the stories on our medium blog and stay tuned for the next conference meeting.

Social
Website: coinsociety.io
FB: https://www.facebook.com/CoinSocietyMi/
Telegram: https://t.me/GenesisBlock10Milano
submitted by CoinSociety to BitcoinIT [link] [comments]

Slack log for Ark token's value proposition discussion 16-07-18

Please find below a log of the discussion we had in slack regarding the ark token's value proposition. Some of the community members who happen to be long term holders of ark feel that the ark token's value proposition isn't clearly communicated by the team so they asked about it. I'm posting the entire discussion it here to make a permanent record since slack wipes messages after a while.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
arigard [7:21 PM]
Hey team, so I'm curious. Is there any update on a new white paper at all that was being mentioned? I've been holding Ark since it hit Bittrex and I personally don't really have a clear idea about how the token is going to work in the overall picture, or what really the direction is for the project once v2 is out. It feels like things have gone a bit flat recently, are there any updates on direction and what the plan is once V2 is live? Is there any idea about when it might go live? Or how the Ark token will fit into the economy (will it be a gas?). I see a lot of other projects i'm invested in coming up with very clear roadmaps/dates and direction about what they want to be and I still personally feel Ark's message is a little confused and hard to read especially for people who are not coders/developers.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:22 PM]
the roadmap is on the site, arkdirectory.com/kits has nice presentations and other goodies
roks0n (deadlock) [7:23 PM]
@Matthew_DC mentioned a couple of days ago that he’s preparing several blog posts which should explain most of these @arigard
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:23 PM]
the Blog also goes into lots of v2 details
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hi everyone.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:24 PM]
Ark is Ark, not like Eth with gas, hence no gas.
Hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) welcome back
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hey rob, hi Rok :slightly_smiling_face:
roks0n (deadlock) [7:25 PM]
Rob, I think he means how everything will be connected with ArkVM etc.
similar conversation as the one few days ago (edited)
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:25 PM]
It's been a while, but I was head on in the project, sorry for not showing more often.
arigard [7:25 PM]
Yeah my main question is really I still don't know what will give the actual Ark token value .
goldenpepe [7:25 PM]
we dont know how the arkvm will work
All we can do is wait
Doubled1c3 (ArkStickers.com) [7:26 PM]
uploaded and commented on this image: bucket.jpg
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)
goldenpepe [7:26 PM]
We can make assumptions but that's all they'll be
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
@arigard this was the discussion: https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531422791000216
roks0n (deadlock)
definitely, I’m not blaming anyone :slightly_smiling_face: Was just curious if there were any developments in terms of the updated whitepaper because I was reading one of the threads on reddit from 6 months ago where it was mentioned you’re looking to hire someone write it up.
Posted in #generalJul 12th
arigard [7:26 PM]
And I kind of feel this is such a big elephant in the room for people in the long run.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
click on the link and read from that post on (edited)
arigard [7:26 PM]
ok
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:27 PM]
I saw that there has been some drawbacks with the V2 ?
(Not sure if it's exact, I only came a few times and seemed to understand it was so)
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There are just some incompatibilities between v1 and v2 in devnet
which is why devnet is currently down
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
ArkVM may be unnecessary as more modern approaches to handling contracts are available, one of the main issue is having them be distributed just like the tokens.
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There's a community run v2-only devnet though #devnet_unofficial
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
it's more like drawback with v1
arigard [7:30 PM]
I mean I've seen a lot of stuff in that discussion discussed over the past year and there still seems to be no concrete answers coming out and that is a bit of worry to me personally. It makes it look like the team doesn't even know. I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air. In other projects I know what gives those tokens value, but in Ark I don't, so it's hard for me as an investor to really sell to someone else the benefits of the token when there is a big question mark still on it.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:33 PM]
do you know that Ark Deployer has been available for quite some time?
arigard [7:34 PM]
Yes, that doesn't really answer any questions though.
mak [7:34 PM]
Ark deployer helps the main chain's business case somehow?
arigard [7:35 PM]
What gives Ark token actual value? Like what is the reason people need to buy and hold the Ark token? That is my question.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
@mak what you're saying is kinda like answering you can use a hammer when asked what a nail do.
arigard [7:36 PM]
You don't need to buy the Ark token to deploy a chain. You can just do it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
I mean, the Ark Deployer doesn't answer what's the Ark.
mak [7:36 PM]
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) my point was directed towards rob's comment. I think you misunderstood it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:37 PM]
@mak My bad then. I apologize.
Blockhunter [7:38 PM]
:boogieark9:
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:38 PM]
" I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air."
This is why I wrote that.. there is no mystery of how that works. You are mistaken or uninformed.
arkenstone [7:38 PM]
That's the problem here because team is programming orientated but there hasn't been alot done on business aspect of the token and marketing investor point big view
mak [7:38 PM]
That only explains the value of the ark codebase not the blockchain though
arigard [7:38 PM]
I think you seem to be trying to turn the argument in a seperate direction.
It's a simple question.
What gives the Ark token value.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:39 PM]
The market does. It's on 19 different exchanges.
arigard [7:39 PM]
Seems like you are being unhelpfully obtuse. I'll rephrase.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:39 PM]
so one thing that is clear to me is interoperability using ACES, where ARK is used as a “middleman” between two different chains, so if there’s high volume between those chains, it means the volume of ark increases as well .. what I’d like to know is how things will work with arkvm and how it will all work with sidechains (on eth, all the side chains will basically link back to the main chain which will be the one responsible for security afaik?)
arigard [7:39 PM]
What gives the Ark token value in the Ark ecosystem.
Blockhunter [7:40 PM]
Vote for Pedro he will make all your dreams come true
arigard [7:40 PM]
Eth is a gas, Waves is a gas. Ark is... what?
mak [7:40 PM]
ACES can work with any chains though. Doesn't have to be ark main chain. So I guess tomorrow persona can become the settlement layer for the Ark ecosystem and there's no incentive to stop it from happening.
arigard [7:40 PM]
^
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
Mak, correct but if there are already lots of chains connected between ARK, it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:41 PM]
As I understand it, ACES could be using any given blockchain as the middle man...
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
it doesn’t mean that it can’t be copied tho
arigard [7:41 PM]
But there are no chains connected through Ark atm
That have any real value anyway
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
eth and btc are
arigard [7:41 PM]
And they can be connected through any Ark clone.
bangomatic [7:41 PM]
I'd love to hear the Ark team chime in on this discussion
arigard [7:42 PM]
So anyone can come along and make another chain that can instantly overtake Ark at this present time if there isn't a failsafe reason for Ark to be the defacto currency.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:42 PM]
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
arigard
That have any real value anyway
Posted in #generalToday at 7:41 PM
Blockhunter [7:42 PM]
Interoperability to the moon
mak [7:42 PM]
"it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly"
Currently Ark is the only mature chain because it's been around longer but the moment persona or some other bridge chain gets listed on an exchange that dynamic is no longer there. So why would you prefer Ark over persona when that happens. That's the question as far as I understand it. (edited)
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:43 PM]
Persona has other goals, not duplicating Ark goals
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:43 PM]
@bangomatic Hi!
arigard [7:43 PM]
What current sidechain of Ark has real value/position in the crypto market? Persona?
bangomatic [7:43 PM]
hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)!
mak [7:43 PM]
The blockchain as a transaction medium doesn't care about secondary goals.
It still has all the capabilities that Ark has.
Colby [7:43 PM]
What has value right now? :thinking_face:
rob [ Ark Labs ]
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422 you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C2ABRLZB8/p1531762883000422
Posted in #generalToday at 7:42 PM
arigard [7:43 PM]
Ark's ecosystem at present is not big enough to be a reason not to just take the tech and start your own.
To think otherwise is ludicrous.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:44 PM]
that's a fine opinion
Jarunik [7:44 PM]
it is harder than you think :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:44 PM]
We aren't Eth with multi $100mn + start ups and even if we were, what's currently to stop one of those just overtaking Ark and leaving it behind?
Jarunik [7:45 PM]
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Colby [7:45 PM]
Same here!
Jarunik
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Posted in #generalToday at 7:45 PM
Blockhunter [7:45 PM]
HODL ROCKET TECHNOLOGY
mak [7:45 PM]
Same here but then there's no reason to hold Ark over something else
arigard [7:45 PM]
i hope so too if there is some reason for Ark to always be there at the top considering it's the Ark platform.
Colby [7:45 PM]
But the thing is that I am wondering, if ark clones get successful, what benefits does it give back to ark
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:45 PM]
@Jarunik to create an ecosystem?
mak [7:45 PM]
Right now we have to consider Ark's value not the other bridge chains
arigard [7:45 PM]
But if there isn't a reason for Ark to exist at the top, why are we all holding it?
Colby [7:45 PM]
Haha I think we are all thinking the same :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:45 PM]
It's a terrible business plan
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:46 PM]
the point of BridgeChains is to allow new projects with no access the market a path to them through Ark, and hence gain value.
Other blockchains connections are through ACES, such as BTC, LTC, ETH, and more coming..
Persona has a way to trade Ark <> Prs
arigard [7:47 PM]
What is to stop them from getting their own exchanges in the future and just using Ark as a stepping stone to becoming their own platform operator?
mak [7:47 PM]
Sure rob, but there's now 10 different projects doing the same and they are faster in development than the ark team is
arigard [7:47 PM]
^
Blockhunter [7:47 PM]
Ark is the Yoda of blockchain and they need a better catchphrase. Better than ark gives no dates or point click blockchain
arigard [7:48 PM]
This attitude seems horribly naive if this is the value proposition.
mak [7:48 PM]
All of us believe in the vision that Ark brought us but I personally am not sure if Ark is the best option to execute that vision in time
arigard [7:48 PM]
The issue is, we don't know what the value proposition is.
mak [7:48 PM]
Other projects seem much faster
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:48 PM]
if you are into speculation, which it seems you are, then on paper all of your projects with no code are better and have more value than Ark
arigard [7:48 PM]
That's not true at all. lol.
Matthew_DC [7:49 PM]
At the most base level, ARK is a common currency token that is essentially automatically compatible with every bridge chain that is built based on ARK and is optimized for transaction volume and throughput to avoid bloat of other mechanisms introduced by the other chains. That is at the most basic level. By holding the ARK token itself, you will be able to enact the functions of multiple bridged chains both issued by our team and others. You will also be able to utilize the ARK chain as a pegged token to many bridged chains but that process will be transparent to users as it will be done behind the scenes without the user needing to do any functions. To think that someone will fork the code and generate a more effective ARK main chain means you have no confidence in the ARK team as the primary developer of the technology itself. In this case, if we are not and someone pushes a better version of the network, then I would argue maybe they SHOULD be chosen. That is the point of a free and open market. Not to mention the potential for registering and providing snapshot hashes to the main ARK blockchain to provide added security measures to a bridge chain with lower security due to lower market share etc, those are just baseline reasons.
As I mentioned the other day, at face value, consider this. What brings value to Litecoin or Bitcoin or Doge? In essence, ARK is a more effective currency and base network than all of these aforementioned networks with all of the added benefits being added for additional use cases.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:50 PM]
will ark based chains be bridged via arkvm?
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
They cant be
You'd need the VM on both sides
Matthew_DC [7:50 PM]
I am currently on a conference call and have a lot going on so I can't respond too much.
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
You can use AIP11's new tx types to do a sort of escrow between chains though i think
mak [7:50 PM]
@Matthew_DC Are you saying that the bridgechains deployed by ark-deployer don't have the same features?
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:50 PM]
ArkVM is not for bridging chains
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
It can be
Coinme [7:51 PM]
And ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
But both chains will need to be running the VM
Matthew_DC [7:51 PM]
The ARK main chain will have specific methods of allowing token transfer and utilization between chains to include quasi-centralized methods through aces, decentralized aces based intermediary networks, Time locked transfers, among custom built smart contract like logic built into the core technology itself that doesn't make the network susceptible to the bloat and mis-utilization an vulnerabilities of full VM use.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
(which the main ark chain wont be)
mak [7:51 PM]
"ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token"
Or any other bridgechain that's listed on exchanges
@Matthew_DC So will all of the bridgechains, no? I could start an ACES node today for persona and it will have no difference from what you describe.
Matthew_DC [7:52 PM]
@mak no, we promised ARK would be open source and everything we build for the core ARK blockchain will be open source.
arigard [7:53 PM]
You can be open source and still protect your value..
Matthew_DC [7:54 PM]
The point of ARK from day 1 has been to create a better base layer blockchain technology and protocol for everyone everywhere to be able to use to create anything they can dream up.
The ARK token is a core payment layer for the ecosystem including any applications we build ourselves, sponsor, partner with, or support.
mak [7:54 PM]
It seems like the team's vision for Ark is as a software product only and there's no business plan for the main chain. Which is fine but it's not explained as such. (edited)
Blockhunter [7:55 PM]
Great to see such active discussions
goldenpepe [7:55 PM]
I think what Matt is trying to portray is this:
A single universal Ark Ecosystem wallet holding ARK that has a nice UI with a list of dapps in the ecosystem
You select a dapp
You send a tx from the wallet using Ark
----------------Everything below this line is transparent to the user-----------------
The Ark transaction has instructions in the smartbridge field
The Ark gets converted to dappCoin via an intermediary like ACES (trustful) or a trustless escrow smart contract
The intermediary received Ark and uses the dappCoin on the dapp chain to do whatever it is the user wanted to do using the instructions in the smartbridge field
The dappchain responds to the request to the intermediary
Intermediary sends an Ark tx with the results of the dapp computation/action in the smartbridge field
---------------Everything above this line is transparent to the user-------------------
After 8+ seconds, user's wallet shows them the result of their interaction with the dapp bridgechain
That's where the value of Ark will come from
The Ark coin will be a universal "omni-coin"
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
:this: This
goldenpepe [7:56 PM]
That will instantly shapeshift into bridgechain coins to interact with the bridgechain dapp
mak [7:58 PM]
I understand what your point is and I agree it will work but only as long as none of the bridge chains are on an exchange
when for example persona gets listed on binance the scenario changes
and now either chain can become the backbone of the ark ecosystem
arigard [7:58 PM]
Yes. We see that. But hypothetically what is to stop a bridged Ark chain from becoming bigger than Ark and then going on to become that gateway? At this point it just seems to be hopium that the Ark network will always be the one people look to. But in one year, or two, or five, it might not be the case. What is to stop Ark being just sidelined if another team come along with develop on what Ark has built and propel it forward and take the mantle?
goldenpepe [7:58 PM]
What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin
Would you rather hold a coin that can do one thing and is forever tied to a single chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
But in other crypto's an app becoming sucessfull is a benefit. In Ark's network it could be a negative.
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Or would you rather hold a coin that can interact with that single chain and 3232523432 others
arigard [7:59 PM]
But why can't another coin become an omnicoin?
If there are no limitations against it
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Why can't another coin become ethereum?
mak [7:59 PM]
"What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin"
Or if it gives out better staking returns etc like persona because of higher inflation rate
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
if there are no limitations against it
You can literally go on AWS right now and deploy an ethereum clone chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
It can, but an ETH token can't oust ETH
That's the difference. We are giving people an easy route here.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:59 PM]
do you often think your children should not surpass you? Or is that the hope?
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
Well it's about security, trust, potential vulnerabilities due to added functionality, the ability of the bridgechain team to create interactions and focus on use cases for their token outside of their core use, etc.
But that's the point of open and free markets
goldenpepe [8:00 PM]
There is a solution to your concern @arigard
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
What is to stop someone from being better than Bitcoin?
arigard [8:01 PM]
I think all these strawman arguments are fun, but they still aren't adressing the issuel
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
Instead of having Ark Deployer literally cloning the ark codebase, have it be a turnkey solution to run a layer 2 chain
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
bridgechain dapps can be "colored coins"
that are forever tied to the main chain
arigard [8:01 PM]
Yeah but you wouldn't have those businesses on the chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
but that would introduce bloat
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
So you are saying the utility of Ethereum is adoption.
arigard [8:01 PM]
And those businesses won't have the potential to become the main ETH.
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
Which is the case for the value of any token.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
@arigard It sounds like you want ark to become Ethereum Plasma
arigard [8:02 PM]
I just want an answer.
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
How many companies are pulling their ERC20 tokens off of Ethereum because of the issues?
Colby [8:02 PM]
Yeah but correct me if im wrong
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
There is no answer that will satisfy what you are asking
arigard [8:02 PM]
And i keep getting strawmanned.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ethereum projects NEED eth for gas
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
We talk to people almost every day that are looking to leave Ethereum.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ark is needed for?
arigard [8:02 PM]
^
Colby [8:02 PM]
This is all I am wondering, where does the ark coin fit into it
I love the idea
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
@arigard You want ark-based coins to rely on Ark
The team wants the Ark chain to not be bloated
The solution to this is unironically ethereum plasma and sharding
Colby [8:02 PM]
but have been waiting for a while to know how the Ark coin will actually be used
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
Shards in ethereum are basically "bridgechains"
arigard [8:03 PM]
Ok, and those teams might be big enough and clued up enough to eventually knock Ark from being the de facto omni coin. That's the worry.
If this is in fact the possibility.
Then it should be clear.
mak [8:03 PM]
"You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain."
@Matthew_DC Ethereum has value because all the dapps live on it which is not true for ark
arigard [8:03 PM]
Because as an investor it worries me, a lot.
I don't know where the value of Ark as an investment is 100% right now.
Jarunik [8:03 PM]
Ark is basically the inverse approach to Ethereum. Eth goes for big one-fits all first and tries to shard ... Ark is creating shards and then combines them
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
There is no solution to what @arigard and @mak are saying right now
Literally no existing solution
Only proposals like sharding
arigard [8:04 PM]
And all this noise about defensiveness doesn't help. These are legit concerns.
Matthew_DC [8:04 PM]
When was it not clear that if a company comes along and builds a better more used product it could potentially take over market share?
That's how all free markets work.
You can't believe in open source and build and open source product without that risk.
arigard [8:04 PM]
But that isn't the same thing. Ark is literally building THE tools for people to then do that.
mak [8:04 PM]
@Matthew_DC Just to clarify I appreciate the work you guys are doing but I want to make an informed investment decision about holding the ark token
arigard [8:04 PM]
As a platform.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
yes ... that is the idea how to grow
arigard [8:04 PM]
if you cloned Bitcoin back in the day you were a seperate currency.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
provide good tools for others to create chains
arigard [8:04 PM]
This is a platform, its totally different.
And what we are discuswsing here is who runs that platform.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
If someone launched an Ethereum chain right now and gained adoption there is a huge potential that all tokens decide to move their ERC20 tokens to the new chain and it becomes the new Ethereum and you have in essence lost all value because Ethereum is not capable of being used on the bridge chain as a currency.
ARK maintains it's value if for no other reason than the pegged value to any chain we personally create to include VM chain, token issuance chain, etc.
arigard [8:05 PM]
If it's built by Ark, does Ark always retain control? if not, why? What happens if Ark ends up building tools for a subsidary project that propels itself above them. Investors will just move to that coin.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
Because it's an open decentralized system.
The problem is people don't actually believe in decentralization if it possibly harms their potential for monetary gain.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [8:06 PM]
we hope bridgechains get popular because that also means more for Ark in many ways.
arigard [8:06 PM]
You can be decentralized without being 100% altruistic. It's not mutually exclusive.
mak [8:06 PM]
@goldenpepe Since you guys claim that there's no solution for this how about I present one which @Matthew_DC can decide if it's useful or not. Make delegate voting for the ArkVM happen on the main chain. So anyone who wants to become a delegate for the VM needs to hold money on the main chain.
arigard [8:07 PM]
It just seems people are being dogmatic about this.
And if this isn't about investment. Why have an ICO?
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Ethereum being the core chain for all ERC20 token based businesses centralizes the industry in a massive way. Not only is Ethereum itself centralized in the way it's mining structure was developed, but it also is centralized in that if the Ethereum network is compromised, thousands of companies assets and business are now compromised.
We don't believe that is the future.
mak [8:07 PM]
I'm not saying that this should be done for all sidechains. Just for the VM and it will be a special case.
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
We believe in a different business model.
That has been at the core of every description and explanation I have given from day 1.
arigard [8:07 PM]
Ok and that's fine, but my point is this should be made very clear if it's the case.
From the team officially.
goldenpepe [8:07 PM]
@mak now you're strawmanning me
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Where is it not clear?
goldenpepe [8:08 PM]
I was addressing the fact that the idea that bridgechains shouldnt be independent and should be tied to Ark being in conflict with the Ark team's idea that the main chain should not be bloated with dapps
The only plausible solution to that right now
is Ethereum Plasma
Sharding
yokoama (thefoundry Delegate) [8:09 PM]
Sharting
mak [8:09 PM]
"We believe in a different business model."
I respect that. But it changes the ark's value proposition to just being a source of funding to the ark team and a means of speculation.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
Shards in ethereum are like bridgechains but the coins are all erc20s that rely on ethereum
Matthew_DC [8:09 PM]
People said ARK's DPoS mechanism would be a failure when we changed the voting structure because they said it wouldn't be secure enough. It has turned out to be massively secure compared to the centralized cartel run solutions of other DPoS chains. This is another fundamental issue where we believe we have a model that will work and will create value and thousands of use cases for the ARK token in a seamless way for the average user.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
and the shard blocks dont interfere or bloat up the "main" eth chain
mak [8:09 PM]
@goldenpepe I'm not suggesting deploying dapps on main chain. Just that the voting should take place there so there is always incentive to keep money on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:10 PM]
At no point did we say ARK was gas and have constantly made sure to outline the differences between ARK and Ethereum.
I believe the Eth model is flawed.
goldenpepe [8:11 PM]
The current ethereum model is flawed
If sharding works then it's going to solve a lot of its issues
(i dont hold any ethereum btw)
arigard [8:12 PM]
At no point have we actually had an updated white paper discussing this question in detail, clearly. It's not on the website and if it is it's buried somewhere in a blog post. The fact these discussions keep cropping up is proof of this.
nukacolaplease [8:12 PM]
I think we don't understand clearly what makes Ark important after the launch of the sidechains, Ark will be only an "exchange token"? The sidechain doesn't need Ark for operating
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
+1 on needing a new whitepaper
Matthew_DC [8:12 PM]
replied to a thread:
This is a means of centralization of the network. Instead, by utilizing a form of pegged bridge chains, we can maintain a similar effect without creating centralization and reliance on 1 chain for others to properly function.
arkenstone [8:12 PM]
I think these things should be clearly written in a new WB and officially made public and promoted
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
A new whitepaper would clear up so much FUD
pieface [8:13 PM]
Yeah I think a new WP is needed for sure
arigard [8:13 PM]
So don't start going "Oh everybody knows this, it's clear" Show me where on the front page of the website it tells you how the token mechanics will work in the ecosystem? It's not good it being on some powerpoint on a google drive, or hidden in comments in the slack.
mak [8:13 PM]
I though there wasn't going to be a new whitepaper.
arigard [8:13 PM]
It needs to be clear to investors how it works, exactly.
goldenpepe [8:13 PM]
I agree with arigard here
I only know what I know because I live on slack
Matthew_DC [8:13 PM]
The solutions are still in development and there are always opportunities to continue to adapt the model, that's why I have these conversations and ask for feedback regularly, but the core fundamental belief of how open and free decentralized markets should work most likely won't change.
arkenstone [8:13 PM]
Same here
goldenpepe [8:14 PM]
The vast majority of ark holders have no idea
they just bought bc of the cool red triangle
arigard [8:14 PM]
Stop playing cute, this is people's money you are asking for. So at least give them the benefit of being honest that there is no inherent business model reason why Ark will be necessary in the future.
And let them make their decisions.
roks0n (deadlock) [8:14 PM]
I agree, it took me months of following discussion on slack and digging around reddit to get information
arigard [8:14 PM]
With proper information.
mak [8:14 PM]
replied to a thread:
It's centralizing value onto one chain but doesn't bottleneck the ecosystem so I don't see anything being wrong with that.
Matthew_DC [8:15 PM]
replied to a thread:
I'm not arguing with you and I made a clear post here within the last 2 days that our website messaging is shit and needs completely redone.
If the ARK network is compromised or the consensus mechanism of the ARK main net is compromised then all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well.
mad4thrash [8:15 PM]
In my opinion Ark's value come from (in the future) the fact that by holding one coin I can interact with every bridgechain plus any ACES services
Matthew_DC [8:16 PM]
So what I am saying is that we have to be cautious of these kinds of decisions and ensure that we aren't inadvertently creating attack vectors to take down partners, businesses, and other industries using the technology.
I'm sorry guys, I have to go, but I would love to continue this conversation on Reddit or here at a later time.
mak [8:16 PM]
"all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well"
^ Correction: only the VM chain will be compromised since I'm not advocating that all bridgechains should vote on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:19 PM]
In an isolated case, if we can map it out and vet the concept, I'm more than happy to hear it out and have the conversation.
Solowatch [8:19 PM]
So I think we can all agree an updated Whitepaper is due
Matthew_DC [8:20 PM]
This is a community project and we are shaping pieces of it together as we continue to build. We have already made changes based on community feedback on many occasions.
So I would love to see someone post a proposal to reddit or even as an AIP at some point that we could discuss.
Jarunik [8:20 PM]
If you write a white paper it will be outdated soon :smile:
Solowatch [8:21 PM]
Well a V2 whitepaper shouldn’t be outdated soon
I don’t care about a V1 or V1.5 whitepaper lol
I want a whitepaper for V2 that’s clearly explaining all these concerns that the community has
arkenstone [8:22 PM]
:this:
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
I wrote a few questions down that I’ll post in here later today that @rob [ Ark Labs ] asked for. Please add to it if I missed anything once I do.
arkenstone [8:23 PM]
And I think now it's the time do it. Present it with full package on mainet launch.. (edited)
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
Or PM and I’ll add them before posting
mak [8:25 PM]
Anyways thanks for listening and responding @Matthew_DC. Some of us have been trying to discuss this with the ark team but didn't get much feedback until today.
arigard [8:25 PM]
Yeah +1
arkenstone [8:28 PM]
Alot of early investors are getting worried
submitted by moazzam2k to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

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